Makar is brilliant, but this defence falls apart without Toews doing

Was at the barn during that stretch Toews went down and honestly my eyes still hurt 😱 Makar was out there eating 27+ a night like a superhero and we STILL got hemmed in our own zone every other shift. The guy can't win every board battle himself, he's one defender not four 🤬 Toews does the dirty work nobody posts highlights of and everyone forgets him til he's gone. Fight me all you want but I'm backing them all day, Toews is the glue 💪

Fanatic_Life, keep my tables from that stretch, goal difference at even strength went negative without Toews, and Makar was piling up the minutes the whole time 📊 That's exactly Uncle_Faithful's point: volume of ice time doesn't win board battles. Small sample though, context matters, depth centres were getting caved in nightly.

watch as long as I have and you'll get it. Every cup team had a guy like Toews doing the grunt work nobody puts on a poster. back in the day every barn had one, and when he was hurt we looked like a beer league squad out there, no mistake about it. Makar can dangle all he wants, somebody still has to shovel the coal 😄

Zoe's tables match mine from that stretch, so I'm with her on this one 📊 My caveat though: Makar was still our best player even without Toews, the problem was everyone below him on the depth chart getting pulled three inches out of position every shift. I rewatched a couple of those games last spring just to settle it in my head, and it's the board battles and exits that fell apart, not the big fella.

Jack's got it right imo. Makar drags the puck out, then some sieve below him coughs it right back 😂 Toews is the guy soaking the punishment so nobody else has to. Wait for the fanboys to pile in though 🤡

nah, y'all give Toews too much credit 😅 guy soaks hits sure, but that stretch went sideways cause the whole bottom six forgot how to clear a zone. Makar was out there dragging us every night. ah well, nowt to do but pray nobody else gets hurt 🙏🔥

Reminds me of when I gave up my section seats for two seasons during the lean years. You learn quick which guys hold the fort and which ones just fill a sweater. Stands, I like your loyalty to Makar, honest I do, but the bottom six forgetting how to clear a zone didn't happen in a vacuum. Toews was the fella taking the wall battles and the first hit every night so the wingers could actually get out and breathe. Pull that plug and suddenly everyone's three steps behind, chasing their own shadow. Way I see it, back in my day every barn had a guy like that and nobody noticed him till he was gone. Makar can skate through two forecheckers all he wants - if the second wave's already collapsed because nobody won the previous shift's grunt work, he's dumping it into a crowd. Both things are true, sure, but you take Toews out of that lineup and even Cale looks mortal. That stretch proved it well enough for me 😄

The Leafs comparison writes itself, doesn't it - they built the whole show around offensive talent and the walls caved in every spring. Concede Makar was our best skater during that Toews stretch, on condition that you explain why every goalie we ran out looked suddenly mortal when the softer minutes dried up. Show me the numbers for his shifts against real top lines before I buy the "Makar dragged us" line.

KevReds nailed it - that bottom-six collapse never happens in a vacuum, and I've got my own spreadsheets from that Toews stretch to prove the shot quality against cratered whenever he sat 📊. One caveat though: value depends how you count it, because Makar's zone exits masked a lot of uglies that only showed up on tape. Small sample on some of those games too, but the pattern held every shift Toews missed.

Uncle's got a point Stands keeps skirting. Makar dragging us every night still left the goalies hung out to dry, that's the tell. Watch the replays: every goal against in that stretch started with a lost board battle in front of the net where Toews normally lives. I'd take the over on Cale's point totals and still lose sleep without Toews chewing those minutes, laughable really how anyone spins it otherwise 🤡💸

Nah Millie, every single GA from lost board battles? cmon, that's reachin 😅 goalie had some stinkers too, don't pretend Toews is a miracle worker 💀

I'll take that bet with you, vet, go back and watch the third period against Winnipeg from that stretch Toews sat out, tell me what you see in front of our net 😄 Nobody's saying the man parts the Red Sea out there. Georgie had a couple rough nights, sure, I've seen worse goalies hung out to dry. But when your defencemen are losing every race to the corner because Makar can only pinch on one side at a time, the poor bugger in the crease is facing rebound after rebound off wingers parked where Toews would've had them planted on the boards. Ben's spreadsheets said it plain enough. Shot quality cratered when he sat. Back in the day the defensive forwards never got a Norris vote in their life and every cup team had two of them doing the ugly work. This ain't a knock on the kid up top, it's basic respect for the guy doing the dishes while Cale takes the bow 😉

Depends how you count those board losses, honestly. Millie and the Vet are both half right. Keep the thread open, I want Rob's Winnipeg replay notes.